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Started by Rammknot at 11/29/2008 01:51:55. Topic has 68 replies.
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Join Date: 2/19/2008 14:34:49

Posts: 12

11/29/2008 01:51:55
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
 Arctican wrote:
 Grumpy Junglist wrote:
Been listening to a lot of WhiteChapel, See You Next Tuesday, All Shall Perish, & The Acacia Strain lalely.

Sorry, but that's not metal.

Not saying anything bad about them, though they are by far not my cup of tea. Those bands are called metalcore, and are kept seperate from metal bands for many valid reasons. ;)

As for me, Pain of Salvation, Dream Theater and Ayreon are my top listens these days. I'm becoming the biggest prog-head ever.


whitechapel is actually concidered brutal death metal/deathcore which are both metal and All Shall Perish is also deathcore.
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Join Date: 5/14/2008 22:21:18

Posts: 96

12/5/2008 01:12:24
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
 Rammknot wrote:
 Arctican wrote:
 Grumpy Junglist wrote:
Been listening to a lot of WhiteChapel, See You Next Tuesday, All Shall Perish, & The Acacia Strain lalely.

Sorry, but that's not metal.

Not saying anything bad about them, though they are by far not my cup of tea. Those bands are called metalcore, and are kept seperate from metal bands for many valid reasons. ;)

As for me, Pain of Salvation, Dream Theater and Ayreon are my top listens these days. I'm becoming the biggest prog-head ever.


whitechapel is actually concidered brutal death metal/deathcore which are both metal and All Shall Perish is also deathcore.

Umm, no. Any band with the "-core" suffix is metalcore, which is not included in the metal genre.

And Whitechapel is the farthest band from Death Metal. Even Sir Elton John is closer to Death Metal than they are.


So, metal n00bs, remember that Metalcore in NOT Metal. At all.
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Join Date: 11/21/2007 00:57:00

Posts: 176

12/5/2008 02:25:20
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...

^^ metal elitist alert.

I don't like those douchey deathcore bands but to say they're not metal (especially since you probably haven't listened to some of them)? Thats just bitchy.

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Join Date: 9/14/2008 13:53:19

Posts: 147

12/5/2008 22:40:50
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
I don't think I like the douchey ones either!lol  But I'll say this I'm really diggin all shall perish' new album, never heard of them or amon amarth and bought both of their new albums about a month ago on the same day.  I realize they are not of the same genre's but anyways.  Here's my first impression of both, I don't mean to offend anyone!
 All shall perish, an extreme version of pantera, don't know how to explain it that's just what I thought, and they are growing on me every day.
Amon amarth, sounded cheesy and bland to me the first listen.  After a few listens I started to enjoy it a little more and now I see it as old school metal from the 80's with cookie monster growls for vocals!haha  anyways I am enjoying it more and more.
Why can't people just call it all metal wether it has the core suffix or not, cause personnaly I see all shall persish as being more metal then amon amarth or Ayreon, and I love ayreon.
Just looking for other people's points of view in my search for good music!
just started listening to gojira, that's some nice metal!

Firth of exiles, from the villa close to the supertwister in a glass locomotive, eclipse my moonbeams! 

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Join Date: 5/14/2008 22:21:18

Posts: 96

12/6/2008 17:38:51
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
 MothiNrust wrote:

^^ metal elitist alert.

I don't like those douchey deathcore bands but to say they're not metal (especially since you probably haven't listened to some of them)? Thats just bitchy.

^^ someone who knows very little about genres alert.

Deathcore is not metal. Even slightly. Ever.

It's like someone said, "Hey guys, let's try to make a metal album, but instead of using good musicianship and vocals, we squeal like pigs and scream like 12 year old girls! Oh, and while we're at it, let's use the EXACT SAME structure in every song!"


Saying that they are in the same genre is just ignorant.
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Join Date: 6/8/2008 04:48:29

Posts: 455

12/6/2008 18:01:24
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
Just because something's not good dosen't mean that it's not metal.

New Amon Amarth song available, check out their myspace!

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Join Date: 5/14/2008 22:21:18

Posts: 96

12/6/2008 22:45:24
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
Just because someone thinks something is metal doesn't mean it's metal.

Metalcore =/= Metal



The end.
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Join Date: 9/14/2008 13:53:19

Posts: 147

12/6/2008 23:32:36
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
Man take it easy!lol  I'm no expert but I can't see how you can make a logical argument about deathcore not being heavy metal.  I personally only know "all shall perish", and supposedly they are "some brootal deathcore!"  Get their album Awaken the Dreamers spin it at least two times...get over the little bit of squealing(it's more of a guttural growl most of the time) and then come back with an intelligent response as to how they aren't metal!
It isn't the same song structure, similar maybe..., they actually seem to have some very progressive traits, and are 9 out of 10 on the heavy scale, whereas I would rate Ayreon at a 5.5-6 on the heaviness.  Metal without a doubt! 
Maybe this albums title is meant for people like you!  (as in maybe you will be awakened to a new sub genre of metal!) ;)

Firth of exiles, from the villa close to the supertwister in a glass locomotive, eclipse my moonbeams! 

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Join Date: 5/14/2008 22:21:18

Posts: 96

12/7/2008 00:08:15
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
Oh, I don't mean to attack you in anyway.

What I'm saying is, a lot of people hear something that is heavy and they call it metal.

Okay compare it to Blues being called Rock or Jazz or something. They are different genres, because they have different genres.

Ayreon may not be very heavy, but it is not heaviness that defines metal. Metal has it's own unique style.
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Join Date: 9/14/2008 13:53:19

Posts: 147

12/7/2008 00:56:40
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
That's cool I didn't think you were directing that at me, but I thought I should try and give the discussion a shot cause I'm looking to learn a little more about metal.  I understand the whole different genres, thing, but don't you think that when thrash started, that the fans of maiden, priest etc..would have been trying to make some of the same arguments as you?  As a metal fan I think people should try and embrace as many different sub genres as possible(diversify).  That to me is what make metal so special, crazy amount of styles and genres and eras.  Why not let them have their sub and we'll all agree to disagree on each others opinion. 
Feel free to expand on you're "metal has it's own unique style" comment.  I'm interested, as I'm sure other people are as well.


Firth of exiles, from the villa close to the supertwister in a glass locomotive, eclipse my moonbeams! 

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Join Date: 9/1/2008 06:07:58

Posts: 521

12/7/2008 01:53:09
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
how come in every "metal discussion" some people got to argue about the damn sub genres and deathcore and etc etc dude if u like it listen 2 it and dont give a *** wat other people say as long as its not rap of country

DEATH TO THOSE WHO DONT DIE WHEN THEY DISOBEY ME!

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Join Date: 5/14/2008 22:21:18

Posts: 96

12/7/2008 02:54:48
re: Metal, Metal & more Metal...
It's a hard thing to explain, so I'll try to use some examples, organized by sub-genre (NOTE: there are always some few exceptions):

-METAL-

Thrash Metal:

- Expresses strong beliefs in it's lyrics, backed by music themed to for the overall feeling of the song.

Ex. -
"Master of Puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind, smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
"
                                                       - Metallica - Master of Puppets (duh)

The song is about being controlled by a drug addiction, and the thrash music just adds to that enraged feeling.

Speed Metal:

- The same basic principle as Thrash, but the sound of the music is different, attempting to blaze forth through the whole song.

Ex. -
"All of life decays
Rapes my eyes
Screams never silence the pain
Death is like an old friend
I can't wait to watch you die
"
                                 - Slayer - Scarstruck

Every song on the album is based on a guy just having the worst day of his life, and wanting everyone dead basically.

Death Metal:

- Of course, it's about death. The mood of the music should make you feel that death is near, and you just growl at it's face.

Ex. -
"RO RO RO
DEATH FACE EAT FLESH
RAPE SODOMY BLOOD KNIFE
KILL KILL KILL
RO RO RO
"
                               - Me - I just sort of made it up.

Power Metal:

- My second favorite genre. There are two main classes; those bands whom try to just be epic and put no real feeling into their songs (though they may still be nice to listen to in some cases.) And those who genuinely try to express a theme or story.

Example of "cheesy metal" that is to say, bands that don't put art in their songs.
"On a cold winter morning, in the time before the light
In flames of death's eternal reign we ride towards the fight
When the darkness has fallen down, and the times are tough all right
The sound of evil laughter falls around the world tonight
"

                                                     - Dragonforce - Through the Fire and Flames

It pained me to even copy and paste that. I hate Dragonforce so much. I don't even have to explain what the song is about, because it's not about anything. The instruments are fast, but music should not have to rely solely on speed.

Example of good power metal -

"Mother always said "my son, do the noble thing..."
You have to finish what you started, no matter what,
Now, sit, watch and learn...
"It's not how long you live, but what your morals say"
Cannot keep your part of the deal
So don't say a word... don't say a word

It won't be long now, love, like mist I slowly fill the room
I place a black candle on your chest,
The path of night is manifest
I never wanted us to end up in this catatonic phase
It wasn't me who ran away, you made me stray...
"
                                                 - Sonata Arctica - Don't Say A Word

The song is the second installment in a series about a stalker, and the trials he is going through while seeing that she is happy with another man. He plans to kill her. It is also their most aggressive sounding song, and the lyrics fit that perfectly.


Progressive Metal:

- Fueled by whatever the writer has a passion for, while sticking to an ever changing formula for the sound. Songs can range from a mere minute to an hour in length. Technical proficiency is at it's peak, with this genre claiming most of the great musicians of our time. Most people just don't have the patience for the length of the songs, or an ear for the sound. Their songs range from Metal to Rock to Folk to Classical and everything in between. By far the most artistic of any genre besides Classical.


Ex. -
"She dresses in black everyday
She keeps her hair simple and plain
She never wears makeup
But no one would care if she did anyway

She doesn't recall yesterday
Faces seem twisted and strange
But she always wakes up
Only to find she'd been miles away
"

                                  - Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence part VIII - Losing Time/Grand Finale

The song is over 42 minutes in length, the subject of all the lyrics being various mental illnesses and how people, both suffering from the illness and those around them, deal with it. All of the songs are from the point of view of the ill. Discussed are: Bipolarity, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Schizophrenia, Postpartum Depresion, Autism, and Dissociative Personality Disorder.

Another Example -

"I never knew your name but I will miss you just the same
I was to live for you I lost the will to live at all the day you came
It'll never be the same but I will love you just the same
You were to be the first, how wonderful
Now I will always fear to hope again
"
                        
- Pain of Salvation - A Trace of Blood

The song is from one of their many concept albums (for those who aren't familiar: a concept album is an album that tells a single story) and is about the man in the story remembering when he and his wife suffered through a miscarriage, and how that pain was one of the things that shaped him into what he is today. It makes sense in the concept.
                   




As you see, Metal as a genre...is an art form above all else. An ultimate way of expression to the artists.


I have also listened to a lot of Metalcore, I had a friend who used to force me to listen to it for hours. So here I go, to show why metalcore should not be included.

Metalcore:

- Formulated by linear song structures, sub-par musicianship and whiny scream vocals.

*chug**chug**chug**SQUEAL**chug**chug**chug*
*chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug*
*chug**chug**chug**SQUEAL**chug**chug**chug*
*5th breakdown*
*chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug*

*Insert angsty lyrics about whiny stuff (screamed, of course)*
*WHHHHHHIIIIIIINNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!*

*chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug**chug*
*chug**chug**chugitty**chug*
                                                    - Ever Metalcore Song Ever.



 Turbotoki7 wrote:
how come in every "metal discussion" some people got to argue about the damn sub genres and deathcore and etc etc dude if u like it listen 2 it and dont give a *** wat other people say as long as its not rap of country


I let everyone listen to whatever they want, but if it's not metal, DON'T CALL IT METAL. That's my point in all of this.

And people say it's my opinion that it's not Metal. The fact is that Metalcore is not metal, or else it would be called Metal. Blues is not metal, therefore, it is not Metal.


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