Zune.net
Started by st0icr4ven at 12/20/2007 01:35:40. Topic has 360 replies.
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Join Date: 11/13/2007 20:10:17

Posts: 7,572

12/20/2007 01:35:40
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
how is it a design flaw?  You "unbalance" the touchpad it's going to do strange things (why are you using two fingers anyways).

Hold your breath someone is about to tell the greatest lie EVER!

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Join Date: 12/5/2007 08:46:22

Posts: 16

12/20/2007 01:55:09
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
* What was your initial experience with the Zunepad?
Using it to scroll through long lists of 100s of artists is fantastic - much better than getting thumb RSI iPod wheel that. Sideways scrolling I don't use all that much.

* How did you learn how to use the Zunepad?  (Experimentation, friend showed me, website, etc.)
I just fiddled with it and it acted intuitively - no training necessary.

* Did you face any difficulties while learning how to use it?

Nope. It's very sensitive, but you get used to it pretty quickly.

* How long did it take you to discover the touch navigation features?
Knew about them before getting the device.

* How long did it take you to become comfortable with touch navigation after you discovered it?

5mins? Hardly any time at all - just seemed like the right way to use it.


I’m also interested in any detailed feedback you have, such as:
* Do you experience any incorrect clicks or dropped clicks?

Can't really hear clicks when music is playing - which is a GOOD THING! No problems here.

* Does the touch navigation respond well?

Pretty well. Probably unrelated, but the UI really does slow down a lot sometimes when listening to a song then trying to get to a menu. I've had to wait up to 5secs for the device to respond after trying to get to a menu before.

* When using touch navigation, do you ever accidentally get a vertical movement when you meant to do a horizontal movement, or vice versa?
I don't think so.

* Does the Zunepad behave consistently?
Yep. Consistent & predictable - the way it should be.

* Do you use your Zune with one hand or two?
One hand - my right hand. Nav with thumb.

* Which part of your finger do you use on the Zunepad?  (Because of the way I hold it I tend to use the side of my thumb right next to my thumbnail.)
Tip of my right thumb when holding with my right hand.
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Join Date: 12/15/2007 09:01:11

Posts: 32

12/20/2007 03:06:24
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 st0icr4ven wrote:
how is it a design flaw?  You "unbalance" the touchpad it's going to do strange things (why are you using two fingers anyways).


I cannot believe I actually am going to explain this.  You see, the idea behind the touch pad is to design an intuitive, easy to use interface that is simplistic and perhaps even enjoyable to use.  If your design ends up producing something that does not take into account the way a sizeable population of people might use the device, and therefore behaves oddly or counterintuitively as a result, it is considered a design flaw. Look up Zune on engadget or any number of commercial or user reviews.  A large number of people who turn off the touch pad, because they find it unnecessary and simply want to use the buttons find it strange that if another finger is touching the pad when they click up or click down, it does not behave as expected.  Engadget actually praises the touch pad as one of the best interfaces for an mp3 player, but also makes note of the quirky nature of it.  I know that in this modern day, people get emotionally attached to consumer products (fan boy is the term, I think?), but that does not mean that a good product cannot be improved upon.  If the touch pad is turned off, when the up button is clicked the interface should respond by moving up. It should not do the exact opposite if a thumb happens to be resting on the down button.  This would be understandable if the touch pad were turned on, but it is a flaw if the touch pad is turned off. Please do not get zealous. Leave that for the religiously inclined.

I think everyone is aware WHY it does this. I don't think that is the issue. Frankly, my post is not concerned with the WHY. My post is concerned with the fact that it DOES do it and it SHOULD NOT.

Alcuin

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Join Date: 11/13/2007 22:22:03

Posts: 296

12/20/2007 03:21:59
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 Alcuin29 wrote:

I cannot believe I actually am going to explain this.  You see, the idea behind the touch pad is to design an intuitive, easy to use interface that is simplistic and perhaps even enjoyable to use.  If your design ends up producing something that does not take into account the way a sizeable population of people might use the device, and therefore behaves oddly or counterintuitively as a result, it is considered a design flaw. Look up Zune on engadget or any number of commercial or user reviews.  A large number of people who turn off the touch pad, because they find it unnecessary and simply want to use the buttons find it strange that if another finger is touching the pad when they click up or click down, it does not behave as expected.  Engadget actually praises the touch pad as one of the best interfaces for an mp3 player, but also makes note of the quirky nature of it.  I know that in this modern day, people get emotionally attached to consumer products (fan boy is the term, I think?), but that does not mean that a good product cannot be improved upon.  If the touch pad is turned off, when the up button is clicked the interface should respond by moving up. It should not do the exact opposite if a thumb happens to be resting on the down button.  This would be understandable if the touch pad were turned on, but it is a flaw if the touch pad is turned off. Please do not get zealous. Leave that for the religiously inclined.

I think everyone is aware WHY it does this. I don't think that is the issue. Frankly, my post is not concerned with the WHY. My post is concerned with the fact that it DOES do it and it SHOULD NOT.


You're totally right.  :(  I'm going to go complain to HP now because my laptop pad doesn't work when I use two fingers to navigate.

GOSH.  Companies should simply EXPECT customers want things to work even if WE'RE the ones using it incorrectly.

A simple question kid; Are you with me or not at all? - Sleeping with Giants (The Academy Is...)

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Join Date: 12/15/2007 09:01:11

Posts: 32

12/20/2007 03:34:31
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 FauxCivility wrote:
 Alcuin29 wrote:

I cannot believe I actually am going to explain this.  You see, the idea behind the touch pad is to design an intuitive, easy to use interface that is simplistic and perhaps even enjoyable to use.  If your design ends up producing something that does not take into account the way a sizeable population of people might use the device, and therefore behaves oddly or counterintuitively as a result, it is considered a design flaw. Look up Zune on engadget or any number of commercial or user reviews.  A large number of people who turn off the touch pad, because they find it unnecessary and simply want to use the buttons find it strange that if another finger is touching the pad when they click up or click down, it does not behave as expected.  Engadget actually praises the touch pad as one of the best interfaces for an mp3 player, but also makes note of the quirky nature of it.  I know that in this modern day, people get emotionally attached to consumer products (fan boy is the term, I think?), but that does not mean that a good product cannot be improved upon.  If the touch pad is turned off, when the up button is clicked the interface should respond by moving up. It should not do the exact opposite if a thumb happens to be resting on the down button.  This would be understandable if the touch pad were turned on, but it is a flaw if the touch pad is turned off. Please do not get zealous. Leave that for the religiously inclined.

I think everyone is aware WHY it does this. I don't think that is the issue. Frankly, my post is not concerned with the WHY. My post is concerned with the fact that it DOES do it and it SHOULD NOT.


You're totally right.  :(  I'm going to go complain to HP now because my laptop pad doesn't work when I use two fingers to navigate.

GOSH.  Companies should simply EXPECT customers want things to work even if WE'RE the ones using it incorrectly.


Your fallacy of logic lies, of course, in the fact that you are comparing dissimilar items. Let us perhaps consider a keyboard that is designed to either register a key being pressed by either touching the key, or, if you turn this feature off, by an actual physical button being depressed.  Now imagine that you turn off the touch feature, and when you play a game and have your fingers on "WSAD" (typically used for movement in games nowadays).  Now imagine you press "W" and the keyboard registers that you press "S" or "A" or perhaps any and all of these keys.  Am I getting through to you, yet?

Before you challenge a position, think about how to phrase your debate so as to not commit an obvious fallacy of logic.

Alcuin

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Join Date: 11/13/2007 22:22:03

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12/20/2007 03:38:48
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 Alcuin29 wrote:

Your fallacy of logic lies, of course, in the fact that you are comparing dissimilar items. Let us perhaps consider a keyboard that is designed to either register a key being pressed by either touching the key, or, if you turn this feature off, by an actual physical button being depressed.  Now imagine that you turn off the touch feature, and when you play a game and have your fingers on "WSAD" (typically used for movement in games nowadays).  Now imagine you press "W" and the keyboard registers that you press "S" or "A" or perhaps any and all of these keys.  Am I getting through to you, yet?

Before you challenge a position, think about how to phrase your debate so as to not commit an obvious fallacy of logic.


lol, kid, don't bring out the thesaurus when you're fighting with an English geek~  I'd already be calling you out for word overuse.

If we're poking holes in logic, I would obviously point out that you're complaining about using two hands.  If I were touching two keys at the same time, and it were touch sensitive, I shouldn't expect it to work in its full capacity.  It may just be a difference of opinion.  The iPhone already patented the two-touch system.

Or are you changing your argument that even with one finger the Zune still manages to bungle your input?

A simple question kid; Are you with me or not at all? - Sleeping with Giants (The Academy Is...)

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Join Date: 12/15/2007 09:01:11

Posts: 32

12/20/2007 03:52:41
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 FauxCivility wrote:
 Alcuin29 wrote:

Your fallacy of logic lies, of course, in the fact that you are comparing dissimilar items. Let us perhaps consider a keyboard that is designed to either register a key being pressed by either touching the key, or, if you turn this feature off, by an actual physical button being depressed.  Now imagine that you turn off the touch feature, and when you play a game and have your fingers on "WSAD" (typically used for movement in games nowadays).  Now imagine you press "W" and the keyboard registers that you press "S" or "A" or perhaps any and all of these keys.  Am I getting through to you, yet?

Before you challenge a position, think about how to phrase your debate so as to not commit an obvious fallacy of logic.


lol, kid, don't bring out the thesaurus when you're fighting with an English geek~  I'd already be calling you out for word overuse.

If we're poking holes in logic, I would obviously point out that you're complaining about using two hands.  If I were touching two keys at the same time, and it were touch sensitive, I shouldn't expect it to work in its full capacity.  It may just be a difference of opinion.  The iPhone already patented the two-touch system.

Or are you changing your argument that even with one finger the Zune still manages to bungle your input?


The argument stands the same. When the touch sensitive pad is turned to the off position, the buttons act incorrectly if more than one point of contact is being made on the pad.  My rebuttal regarding the ad hominem attack that roughly states "anyone is an idiot if they make more than one contact on the pad" has not been challenged, so I will not rehash that.  The baseline argument that has not been refuted is that if a user sets the player to "Settings > Touch:off", and pushes the up button (for example), then there should be no reason short of device failure that the device does not respond by moving in the up direction.

Congratulations on being a self-titled "English geek", not that this is pertinent to the topic at all.  I, myself, am an Electrical Engineer, so I defer to you on all english speaking questions.

Alcuin

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Join Date: 12/5/2007 03:18:59

Posts: 89

12/20/2007 16:57:52
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
The Zune Pad and hardware are fine, top notch, its the SOFTWARE and FIRMWARE that is buggy trash.  I think you should get reassigned and help the software team program, because they obviously suck at it. I think even a non-programmer would be able to help them at this point, that's how bad it is.
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Join Date: 11/13/2007 20:10:17

Posts: 7,572

12/20/2007 17:07:53
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>

 ElektroDragon wrote:
The Zune Pad and hardware are fine, top notch, its the SOFTWARE and FIRMWARE that is buggy trash.  I think you should get reassigned and help the software team program, because they obviously suck at it. I think even a non-programmer would be able to help them at this point, that's how bad it is.

Thanks for inputing your issues that aren't directed towards that Touchpad in the thread I'm sure it will help out a lot with the touchpad Indifferent [:|]


Hold your breath someone is about to tell the greatest lie EVER!

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Join Date: 12/5/2007 03:18:59

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12/20/2007 17:56:04
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
 st0icr4ven wrote:

 ElektroDragon wrote:
The Zune Pad and hardware are fine, top notch, its the SOFTWARE and FIRMWARE that is buggy trash.  I think you should get reassigned and help the software team program, because they obviously suck at it. I think even a non-programmer would be able to help them at this point, that's how bad it is.

Thanks for inputing your issues that aren't directed towards that Touchpad in the thread I'm sure it will help out a lot with the touchpad Indifferent [:|]

I did give my feedback on the Touchpad... I said it was fine, top notch, and that they should focus their energy on other issues.  Is that not feedback? Wink [;)]

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Join Date: 11/14/2007 04:16:00

Posts: 100

12/20/2007 18:01:28
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>
dont feed the troll, stoic... ignore him
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Join Date: 12/5/2007 03:18:59

Posts: 89

12/20/2007 18:41:11
re: WANTED: Zunepad Feedback <stickied>

 IWANNAGOLF wrote:
dont feed the troll, stoic... ignore him

I'm not trolling, I'm a CUL 5 on Xbox forums.  I'm just not very patient or understanding when it comes to serious software bugs caused by poor testing practices.  You should see my complaint posts on xbox.com about DRM bugs in XBLA.  This is mild.  Anyway, off topic, I agree, so I'll shut up... here at least.

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