Sync Issues / Updating Songs

Alright, so I have been searching the forums for a about an hour, and I have found a few threads mentioning this problem, but they all seem to be two or three months old, and none with a solution. Basically, I have a Zune 120, and I have it filled to the max. It was brand new and empty to begin with, I installed the latest software, then made a playlist of about 20,000 songs that I would manually drag over to the zune (Since my library is nearly 500gb). I did this and it seemed to work fine at first. I let it run over night and in the morning the sync had stopped. Not sure why, but it had 12,000 songs remaining, so I started it again and went to work. When I got home, it was "Updating <song>" and still had the 12,000 songs to go. I continued to let the sync go for another 24 hours, where it finally got down to 3,000 songs remaining. While at work it stopped syncing new songs, and went back to updating. After almost a week, I'm finally down to just my 35 videos remaining, and it seems like I can never get them on because it has to go through and update 20,000 songs before it gets around to it. Any suggestions?

(Sorry for the hijack but I seems we are having a similar issue..)  I have about 100 gb of songs that I am putting on the Zune and I add new songs every couple days.  When I try to sync them onto the device, it begins the sync but says that it is syncing 200-300 songs when I only added 15 to the library.  It will eventually finish syncing but it takes over 24 to synch those 15 new songs.  Does anyone know any way to remedy this?  Right now I can't even think about syncing as I have about 200 actaul new songs and I have no interest in thinking how long that would take to sync with the way things are going...

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Live with Pride

I too am having this problem. It seems to me that when I sync up, it first updates all the music that is currently on the zune before it adds music. Which would be great if I had say 2000 songs, but I have 18,000 and it takes more than 24 hours to update them all so it will no longer update my device with the new songs I have added unless I bite the bullet and don't use my zune for a few days.

I wish there was a way to prioritize songs or something. Maybe let us highlight certain items in the "syncing" list and update them to a "sync now" priority to override what the system is doing and force them on to the device immediately? If this were an option I'd be more ok with what it is doing. But in the meantime, I have new music I just can't listen to because I don't even know how to cancel what the system is doing.

I guess I could turn it to manual sync, sync it and then set it back, but that seems like a lot of work. 

this software just is not equipped to handle large music collections.  my largest complaint is that you cannot sort by sync'd files...apparently everyone at zune thinks its perfectly ok to do a file by file comparison between the device and software to find the one file that is on the device, that isn't on the software: obviously none of them are using a device larger than 30G or have more than 5000 songs.

some things i noticed:

if your antivirus software or something is updating in the background while you are sync'ing, then you will loose files on the transfer.

if the software is trying to convert in the background, it will also drop files qued for transfer.

i had a much better completion rate transferring wirelessly rather than through the usb 2.0 cable and port.

also had a much better completion rate transferring files 250 at a time, rather than 2.500.

 

if that isn't bad enough, zune adds insult to injury by putting us into a multi step process to sync the files that failed initially; and zune's "highest level of customer support" was stuck dumbfounded when proposed with the issue that the software could miss as much as 40% of qued files for transfer and no easy way to make them sync.  they also do not comprehend how long it takes to resync 80GB of music files and i have the trouble ticket number to prove it!

 Bill Pet wrote:

this software just is not equipped to handle large music collections.  my largest complaint is that you cannot sort by sync'd files...apparently everyone at zune thinks its perfectly ok to do a file by file comparison between the device and software to find the one file that is on the device, that isn't on the software: obviously none of them are using a device larger than 30G or have more than 5000 songs.

some things i noticed:

if your antivirus software or something is updating in the background while you are sync'ing, then you will loose files on the transfer.

if the software is trying to convert in the background, it will also drop files qued for transfer.

i had a much better completion rate transferring wirelessly rather than through the usb 2.0 cable and port.

also had a much better completion rate transferring files 250 at a time, rather than 2.500.

if that isn't bad enough, zune adds insult to injury by putting us into a multi step process to sync the files that failed initially; and zune's "highest level of customer support" was stuck dumbfounded when proposed with the issue that the software could miss as much as 40% of qued files for transfer and no easy way to make them sync.  they also do not comprehend how long it takes to resync 80GB of music files and i have the trouble ticket number to prove it!

OK, so I have a couple of info tidbits that might provide a clue... and some ideas.

First-  if I can find the thread again, I'll post an update here with the link.  There is a file quantity limit on the zune.  My recollection is that it's consistent with the stated limits in the specs (so for a 120GB, it would be:  "Up to 30,000 songs, 25,000 pictures, ..."  I had a discussion with a very good Mod, and we agreed this made no sense, especially as the drives get so big.  He has filed a ticket with the developers to get this removed.   Note that I'm talking about a quantity of files, not a hard drive space issue.  Bill- I raise this since you stated you made a 20,000 song playlist!  That suggests you possibly may have an even larger collection...

Update:  Found it...http://forums.zune.net/387008/ShowPost.aspx

Second-  Now that we have autoplaylists, the software 'refreshes' those periodically.  I don't know all the triggers for a refresh, but I have observed at least two.. 1) Sync'ing, 2) playing them on the PC.  So, I think your observation of 'updating songs' during sync may quite possibly be the software choking on refreshing this extremely large 20K song playlist.  (To refresh an autoplaylist, the software checks the logic whatever that may be, and converts it to a static playlist, then syncs that to the device.  During a sync, it could be re-writing the entire playlist to the device, or perhaps scanning it to add/delete the refresh 'changes.'  I.e., autoplaylists are only 'auto' on the PC, and get updated on the device at every sync.  Cut this 20K playlist down to many much smaller ones if possible.  I have no idea what size is optimal though, so you will have to experiment. (And, presumably something similar happens with 'regular' static playlists...the software has to refresh those onto the device if/when you update them on the PC.)

Third- What is your sync mode?  You can use a playlist to force a song to sync if you are in anything but smart-sync -all mode, which appears to be your case.  Are you using manual sync, or smart-sync- let me choose mode?  You may want to experiment here, and use let me choose, with many small sync groups, vs. one or two very large sync groups.  I can imagine the same sort of refresh behavior as autoplaylists occuring here, too, as the software checks and refreshes the sync groups during a sync.  (Sync Groups and Playlists may even be the same thing, using two different names...)  Examples of 'small' sync groups would be an artist (or an album, or a group of songs...but those would seem painful to manage/create for such a large collection.)

Fourth:  Ref:  background conversion.  It will happen only once (per file) and then be done.  If for videos, you have to live with it, or choose not to have those videos on your zune.  If for music, you can change your settings not to convert (the purpose is to limit the file sizes by down-converting from higher to lower bitrates...less music fidelity, but smaller files.)

 NSILMike wrote:

[OK, so I have a couple of info tidbits that might provide a clue... and some ideas.

yes, you've given me a few things to go over, thank you so very much!

the idea that the software is sync'ing a single playlist with 20K parts on a transfer rather than 20K files will help me troubleshoot at the least.  especially with the additional information you gave about the first time transfers (which is probably what has been happening since support has had me add/remove software and the relationship with the device so often i probably don't have a proper base to be working from at the beginning.

 

i've set the software up to sync auto with a network drive in most all setup scenarios, the few times i had it on manual was for trying to get the "blocked" files that didn't sync the first time to resync.  basically i've just been deleting and adding to the network drive, letting the software update the list, then sync it....figured once set up i wouldn't even have to go to the pc with the software.

is it possible the software is just seeing the network drive as a complete playlist??  that sure would go a long way in explaining why such a huge failure rate if the single playlist theory holds, and i'm starting to think you are exactly correct.  i'm not using any playlists...yet, but i fully expect to generate them nearly as large.

i specifically removed all podcasts and subscriptions, videos, and have held off on the marketplace ever since my first transfer went so horribly.  one of the first things i noticed was the coverter trying to convert a boatload of vids.  all sync's have since the first have been .mp3 only with zero drm issues (but the smallest add/remove music from the network drive has been 15GB with 5GB sync attempts from the software).

i'm going to continue to strip down this older dell just to make sure none of the software is interferring, should be done by monday i think.....and YES! i will be experimenting now, thank you.

 Bill Pet wrote:

[snipped]

yes, you've given me a few things to go over, thank you so very much! [snipped]

You just gave me two more ideas for you to try.
1) Network drive:  add it using the UNC path, instead of a drive letter.
2) There is a hidden, system file zune uses, called zunestore.sdf.  It's an index to your collection.  Before you start experimenting, you should find this file, and rename it.  zunestore.old or similar, and then start the software.  It will take a few minutes (or several, for your large collection) and it will start to 'find' your collection.  It will be empty when you start the software, and it will add all your items.  Why? It's possible with all your trials that this file has some corruption that is preventing correct sync'ing. 
If you do this, you will have to resubscribe to your podcasts.  They will all be there in the podcast section of the software, but you will need to click the subscribe button for each one. Not that big of a deal, but annoying if you have a lot of podcasts (I have almost 40...)

sorry it took me so long, had to set up a netbook for a friend and was playing with the software prior to removal trying to locate the phantom .mp3

 

ok, i guess we have 2 sections, first is the fresh install of windows xp home and zune software with updates only still missed 23 of 4,328 files for a total of 22.1GB (which i figure to be average when setup up -- vids/pods/etc).  some one mentioned how logical this software is, but i still see no simple way to find the missing files and get them recognized by the software....mm/itunes/wmp all have a button to resync the software with the network folder and all of them accomplished a complete match in 3 tries or less.    SO, if someone has the logical easy way to fix this first i would be much appreciated.

 

i did set the software to sync only files i decide, and no other sections of the software have been touched other than to remove the default locations.  i am unfamiliar with unc path...the network drive and folders are in my shared docs and network places...its all i've ever needed and have zero desire or need of software such as novell.  if there is software interferring with the zune software now it's either windows firewall, automatic updates, or some other microsoft product.....o, i also changed the power settings to 'always on' just to make sure that wasn't the issue.

 

the second is the phantom file left on my device by the software.  i verified that 'show dupes' was enabled and removed 20-35 albums at a time hoping the dupe would reveal itself or auto delete when the original left.......um, no....i had to blank my device to remove the extra .mp3 the software never showed!!  i suppose this could be a 'freak' occurence, but i bet not......so far the only workable solution to these issues is a line by line comparison which is unacceptable!!  and not to mention flat out aggrivating.

this pc meets more than the minimum requirements in every catagory (except video...which is the minimum 64) and only has windows xp home ed sp2 with all ms updates and the zune software.  the pc is networked in perfectly fine to the network drive and folder on that drive and i placed both in my shared documents just to illiminate any issues (althought i think this unnecessary).  i have shut off all non essential ms software on the host pc as well just to illiminate those arguements.

what do you need to know to help me troubleshoot the zune's inability to do what it should?

 

thanks in advance!

UNC path:  if your mapped network drive is listed in the collection settings screen with this format F:\folder\ change it to \\computername\folder\.

Other than that, I have no further ideas... 

it's already in that format....this is where all those ppl with the experience that say this is so easy and straight forward and logical step in with solutions!!!!!!

 

thanks nsilmike, i appreciate the help, if something snaps into mind, please let me know.  i'm frustrated beyond belief and feel completely betrayed by ms and zune teams.

 Bill Pet wrote:

it's already in that format....this is where all those ppl with the experience that say this is so easy and straight forward and logical step in with solutions!!!!!!

thanks nsilmike, i appreciate the help, if something snaps into mind, please let me know.  i'm frustrated beyond belief and feel completely betrayed by ms and zune teams.

Hmmm...

then try the other format...although the UNC format seems to solve problems, not the other way 'round.  you can always change it back.

I am thinking it's the size of your collection...the software is choking... or at least gagging a little bit.

I'm very sorry we couldn't completely solve it...  good luck!

 Bill Pet wrote:

it's already in that format....this is where all those ppl with the experience that say this is so easy and straight forward and logical step in with solutions!!!!!!

 

thanks nsilmike, i appreciate the help, if something snaps into mind, please let me know.  i'm frustrated beyond belief and feel completely betrayed by ms and zune teams.

I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but I appreciate you coming here to express your frustrations and issues. We do listen to all feedback, and try to fix issues that our customers bring up in these very forums.

I see that you have a few issues here. Can we try to tackle them one at a time? Also, if you are willing, can we try to get the issue laid out in a more scientific manner? Here's an example:

Steps to reproduce the issue:

1.

2.

3.

Expected result:

Actual result:

 

I'd love to try to help if you are still willing, let me know!

Thanks,
Matt

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Matt Akers
Zune Product Team

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